tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post3899341868571857474..comments2023-10-15T10:29:12.991+01:00Comments on Karyn's erratic learning journey: An operational attitude towards learningThe upsychohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06345558899662051670noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-1757160579537163582010-12-27T11:16:30.562+00:002010-12-27T11:16:30.562+00:00@Craig I would be reluctant to see such a move, be...@Craig I would be reluctant to see such a move, because then the L&D department is viewed as being part of the bunch that make sure we jump through the right hoops, tick the right boxes and so on. Whereas I think the remit is much wider than that - it includes the whole day job.<br /><br />I am sure there are all manner of health and safety issues around the nuclear industry, but the softer skills: performance appraisal, conflict resolution, negotiation skills, presentation skills, etc. are no doubt just as much in evidence in your industry as any other, and have nothing to do with compliance.<br /><br />In my view, placing them under the remit of compliance would change the mindset associated with these skills...and not for the better.The upsychohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06345558899662051670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-15398720362710557862010-12-26T18:29:19.629+00:002010-12-26T18:29:19.629+00:00Hi Karyn,
An interesting concept and one that on ...Hi Karyn,<br /><br />An interesting concept and one that on the face of it (depending on your point of view) seems to be common sense as it promotes the work=learning, learning=work approach. <br /><br />But I have a slight adaptation to your suggestion that I would like to offer.<br /><br />For organisations (such as mine) operating in EXTREMELY regulated sectors (such as the Nuclear industry) and as such delivering a *LOTS* of H&S and compliance-driven training, I would suggest that the L&D function could sit within the Compliance Department. This would then place both those responsible for interpreting the various rules, regulations and guidance and then offering the business their advice as to how best comply with that legislation and the function that is responsible for delivering the 'formal' performance-related activities to meet that legislation in the same department.<br /><br />Admittedly this is not the same as L&D sitting within Operations, but if the majority of the training that Operations undertake is driven by Compliance, then this seems a good fit to me..<br /><br />Your thoughts?Craig Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16810903111668252517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-52530991084915735352010-12-23T15:00:38.353+00:002010-12-23T15:00:38.353+00:00Thanks, Mike. I've sent out a link via Twitter...Thanks, Mike. I've sent out a link via Twitter as well. Let's see what that garners for you.The upsychohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06345558899662051670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-30356486911627295712010-12-23T14:45:40.423+00:002010-12-23T14:45:40.423+00:00Karyn,
After reviewing the comments in this post,...Karyn,<br /><br />After reviewing the comments in this post, I was surprised to see that I was the only person who advocated L&D reporting to HR. This prompted me to write a bit of a rebuttal at my own blog. I thought you and your readers might be intresested: <a href="http://mwtl.blogspot.com/2010/12/l-strategy-report-to-hr-or-operations.html" rel="nofollow">L&D Strategy</a><br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />MikeMike Petersellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01295636449116479682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-85052995456946550332010-12-19T15:36:49.302+00:002010-12-19T15:36:49.302+00:00Thanks all for your comments.
@Mark I should prob...Thanks all for your comments.<br /><br />@Mark I should probably have acknowledged Harold - thanks for the reminder. He and I have had this conversation in one guise or another at various points over the years.The upsychohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06345558899662051670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-31411348477324213072010-12-19T13:59:29.478+00:002010-12-19T13:59:29.478+00:00Your line of thinking is spot on. "Work is le...Your line of thinking is spot on. "Work is learning, learning is work" via Harold Jarche. Training has its place for new hires and new skills, but deep learning is on going and exists within the work context. The fact that L&D exists at all as its own unique department under any broad group is problematic. It, by the nature of its separation, separates learning from the work. My concern is that if under HR or Operations the mindset of the directors and leaders of each is what needs to change. The adage of "we teach as we were taught" is very prevalent still. Regardless of department oversight, many still see the route to performance improvement through formal initiatives & command and control only...as that is what they know from their own experiences.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09903901686760230505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-43142000658013163172010-12-19T13:19:33.760+00:002010-12-19T13:19:33.760+00:00Absolutely and totally 100% agree.
When I started...Absolutely and totally 100% agree.<br /><br />When I started in Organisational Development and 'change' work, I'd often find myself at that first meeting with the commissioners of the project asking the question, "When will I get to meet (my supposed counterparts in) HR and Training?" (All the projects I've ever been involved in have had a 'learning' component.)<br /><br />The answer has been startlingly consistent. Nobody wants those people in the room when it comes to 'development' because they're from a different mindset.<br /><br />There's definitely a place for that risk-averse, codifying mindset. But it's in the background, for the most part.<br /><br />I swear this is true - I was once in a meeting with about 70 managers (all of the managers of the organisation were there, it was a three-line whip) and the HR bods announced the fact that they'd been observing the market and found that, as a group, managers didn't have enough 'commercial acumen' (it was a public sector business).<br /><br />"We're introducing a new section to the competency framework called 'commercial acumen' and this meeting is to consult you on what we should include to make this work."<br /><br />The thing about HR is that we don't actually <i>want</i> them to be any different. We need risk-averse people to look at firing (not hiring, though) and navigating the legislative environment. You don't want somebody in R & D in charge of processing the payroll.<br /><br />But really, for the rest of it, they should get back in their box.Simon Bostockhttp://hypergogue.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-39161663137076885542010-12-19T13:10:22.082+00:002010-12-19T13:10:22.082+00:00Karyn,
Thanks for your thought provoking post. W...Karyn,<br /><br />Thanks for your thought provoking post. While I agree it is important that Learning & Development departments must be connected to business and operational goals, I don't think it is necessary for them to be part of operations to do so. At different times in my career, I have worked in learning departments that were imbedded in the business and others that reported up through HR. As long as I was tuned into the business it didn't matter where our department was pluged in to the larger organization. You mention HR being concerned with things such as the work environment, but in this day and age the most critical HR functions are talent strategy and workforce development. With the amount of change going on in organizations today, I believe it creates a great advantage to have L&D closely aligned with these critical business functions. If you have good business leaders, L&D can still partner with operations from here.Mike Petersellhttp://mwtl.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-30002489853210074532010-12-19T12:55:26.222+00:002010-12-19T12:55:26.222+00:00Hi Karyn,
I agree that learning and development sh...Hi Karyn,<br />I agree that learning and development should be positioned within the operational side of the business and that individual learning should occur within the person's work context. One model I know well to support this approach is competency-based training. Here’s how it works: self-directed learning modules are developed for the tasks that employees are required to perform. The learning facilitator is either the employee’s supervisor or a coach mentor within the workplace. The learner selects from a variety of learning activities under the guidance of the facilitator. The facilitator advises, observes and evaluates employee performance within the work context.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12756637700103345789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-46750647926913698962010-12-18T18:47:43.752+00:002010-12-18T18:47:43.752+00:00Too bad they don't have stars on blogger. I...Too bad they don't have stars on blogger. I'd give this all five. I'll do some serious thinking what to do about it.irmawalterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12612774341504053499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14184878.post-10023709836553228332010-12-17T17:47:28.829+00:002010-12-17T17:47:28.829+00:00I agree with you whole heartedly, and especially i...I agree with you whole heartedly, and especially in the knowledge economy. Your example was for a process which could be taken out of context and used for other companies. <br /><br />However, when I left graduate school, I was an international auditor. Our training came out of the department because it was highly specialized and the only in house people with expertise were in the department. As our "product" was a result of what we knew, we had to be able to understand what the parameters of our jobs and skills were, which was constantly changing. As a result, we needed the constant interaction with the trainers, a sort of just in time learning and access to resources for learning. During my work, our training was always individualized to the audit we would be going on (especially since we were international auditors, so the external rules and regulations changed, but needed to conform with internal controls). In this case, the L&D were more like coaches or learning facilitators, helping auditors to identify areas they needed to know more about and coming up with training plans and resources for them to do so. <br /><br />Looking back on it, my guess was for a very large multinational corporation, this was very innovative of them.V Yonkershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910904367068063554noreply@blogger.com